Greg – How a Traumatic Brain Injury Changed His Path

Good morning, good afternoon or good evening. You're listening to career crossroads. And if you're new here, welcome. If you're not new, welcome back. I'm Jonathan Collaton. And this is the podcast where I talk to people about all the pivots, changes and life events that led them to their current career path. Greg Noack is my guest today. And we got connected by a friend of mine, Rachel Peters, who was one of the very first people I ever interviewed on this podcast. Greg's story like all stories on career crossroads, is about a winding career path. But it is also about so much more than that. This is the story of a man who very early on in his career, woke up one day in the hospital to find out he had been in a coma for 15 days, Greg had suffered a traumatic brain injury. And he literally could not understand what was happening to him when he woke up. He couldn't walk, he couldn't express emotion. He couldn't even feed himself. And yet, here he is, 25 years later talking to me about that experience. This is also the story of how Greg spent years recovering from his injury and how the people that helped him recover influenced the career that he has today. I want to warn you that there is some brief reference to suicidal ideation in this conversation, but Greg's injury is not a result of those thoughts. Better for you to hear about it from Greg than me. So let's get right to our conversation. And then afterwards, we'll talk about what we can learn from Greg's story. Greg, thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome to What I understand is your very first podcast interview.

Yes, as we were prepping, you are taking my podcast virginity. So be gentle.

I will

Thank you for this opportunity. Like I really appreciate it.

I'm glad that you're, you're here to be able to share your story because your career is unlike so many other people that I've spoken to. And a large part of that is because as I will have prefaced in the intro to this episode, you had a very traumatic brain injury about 25 years ago. And that has had a massive impact on your career and what you have chosen to do since then. And I know you're you're here to tell me about that. And to talk about that. And we can spread awareness about what traumatic brain injuries are like and what the recovery is like and, and to hear also how it has impacted what you've done. I'm really excited people are going to have the opportunity to hear that today.

Excellent. Hey, the best cure for ignorance is knowledge. So again, thanks for allowing me to share my story with you.

All right. Well, like all stories on this podcast, we have to go back and talk about what you were like, when you grew up, where you grew up, the things that were influencing you. And basically, what are all the factors that sort of influenced, maybe the first thing you ever thought you might want to do as a career?

Okay, great. Well, I was born and raised in Sault Ste. Marie, Northern Ontario, go grey hounds, you know, and oh, yeah, it was a great place to grow up. My first introduction to, you know, thinking of what it would do for a career. My grandfather owned a restaurant, my father owned a restaurant, and it kind of interests me. And I was a bit fascinated by it. And that was kind of the direction my life took watch for my dad and what he was doing. So that's what made me make the decision maybe to explore business as my first career path. Okay. And like I told you early, Jonathan, while we were prepping for this, back in the day in 89, 1990, things were a bit different. I wasn't too strong in high school with my marks. And basically my Ontario academic credits my grade Thirteen's basically, pigeon holed me into that direction as well, like, university of Windsor accepted me into their business administration program, and that's what I decided to do.

Okay. Did you work summer jobs at the restaurants?

Yeah, basically, my first job was a short order cook for my father at his restaurant, and I was fired numerous times. He would get frustrated. I've learned through rehab to write things down. I didn't with him. And so we'd have a busy Saturday lunchtime, and I wouldn't take his advice. And sure enough, I'd mess up all the orders, and I'd be in the car waiting to go home. So yeah, that was fired quite a bit. But yeah, that was my first experience. And I also my first job was when I was 16. I was a stock boy at the byway at a department store in Sault Ste. Marie. So that was my first

I remember by way

Yes, yes.

Gone away a long time ago.

You might hear about that more. As you We talk and yeah, that was my first, actually, I guess experience in retail. Yeah, but yeah, business kind of fascinated me through my father and grandfather.

Okay. So then why I know you, you talked about your grades but like why specifically the University of Windsor and maybe this is the perspective of me having grown up in Toronto, there's a lot of schools around here. But in Sault Ste. Marie, you, I guess you had to go away to go to school,

basically, like we have Algoma University Sault college up there. Yeah, but your choices were limited. And I find a lot of my friends who I went to high school with, when they went away to university wherever they went to universities where they'd end up with their career right or their job. Because this to the Sault is a steel town, and you know, Algoma steel, they have Ontario lottery Corporation now, but it's pretty a two industry town. So you pretty much had to move away to get a specialized feel. So okay.

And of all the cities that you could have gone to, was it like Windsor was the option just because that's where I got accepted?

Yeah, and I guess my upbringing, it was my parents sadly separated when I was 12. And my mother moved away with my siblings to Windsor later on. So that was part of so yeah, it family there. And so, you know, go to them as well. So that was kind of the decisions to go to University of Windsor.

Now. I know that the experience of the University of Windsor did not go probably the way you expected. And after the first year you were you were out of there. Yes. Well, we all about

Exactly. And I brought this up to you before this podcast. I just live with my father and I think once I moved away to university for the first time, I was a bit liberal with my freedom. So I really enjoyed the drinking and the nightlife more than my schooling. So I did fail. But after that, I went to St. Clair College in Windsor and graduated with honors from business there. Because I thought to myself, Okay, I mess up this do I go back to high school? Like I I couldn't step any further back. So I took it really seriously. So that year of fun kind of woke me up. Yeah, yeah.

So you really had to think hard about what that next step would be because not a ton of great options if you didn't go into something academically and be successful. So the college there, gave you all the motivation you needed really to work very hard I imagined to get in the honor roll or whatever it was called. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah. To to get honors I get on just Yeah, I and St. Clair college was really good. Like it was a great program like Business Administration marketing specifically. And I got a secondary certificate and human resource to serve people and cultures as we call it now. So yeah, it was a good experience. And then from that is when you know, I did odd jobs and sales and they ended up ironically, managing a byway store in Windsor. That was my first big job and thinking back, I signed a salary contract for 28,500. I thought that was great. Not realizing I'd be working 80 hours a week. But that's management, right. So it was a good experience that turned out to be frustrating.

Yeah, and I know about this already, because as we're going to get into shortly, you actually have written a book about really your your path to the point where you got this traumatic brain injury. And most of the book obviously, is focused on everything after that point. But you did bring up sort of the reasons how you ended up in the in the spot where you were when this injury happened. And that book is called my invisible disability, I wanted to bring it up now, because I couldn't figure out where I would be able to first fit in the name of your book and, and fit it in appropriately. Because, as I said, like, the conversation we're gonna have is going to be so dramatically different, I think, than a lot of other ones I had, so I wanted to bring that up right now. Now, by way, I also know that experience, not the most fun positive experience, 80 hour weeks for money that does not represent the amount of work you were doing. Yeah. How long did that last before you realized I can't do this or don't want to do this? Like what was the what was the moment where you just said, I'm done?

I would say about six months in and it's that was a great kind of segue for my book. And I talked about at the beginning of my book, how I ended up in Victoria, British Columbia. That's where I ended up receiving my traumatic brain injury. It's almost like I realized is this for me, like business administration. I was really frustrated. I talk to you Jonathan, while we were getting ready for this about the mental state I was in like, I don't think I was mentally healthy. And looking back I wish I did get help. And I think I put these expectations on myself. I think 1996 was different from nowadays, but for some reason I put pressure on myself to have the wife, the kids the picket fence, the house, and I was just so determined to get that, that I ignored the fact that I had it pretty good. And it ate at me. And that led to as I like to call it my quarter life crisis. I'm like, You know what, even though I have this great family, and everything's settled pretty well, after I graduate, I gotta get the heck out of here. So I thought, You know what, move out to Victoria, British Columbia. My mother's husband lived out there and his family lived out there. So I said, You know what, there's my and I'm gonna just go out there live with them for a while and just start a new, and I just wanted to get away from everything for some reason. That's why I wish I would have maybe seeked help. But I think us being males, that pride thing, I'm like, You know what, I don't want help. I'll just figure out on my own. I think that kind of bit me in the back side, looking back.

Yes. And I think times have certainly shifted, but what we're talking about is like the mid 90s, here, yeah, that is the era of like, man up and figure it out. Yeah. So it's, it's a different world now. And I think, kind of an indication of the fact that people are willing to talk about these things. I'm often pretty vulnerable in this podcast talking about, like, why I'm considering a change. And you know, when I'm happy or unhappy about things, so I think things have certainly shifted, and more males in particular are willing to open up and talk about that kind of stuff and get help when they need it. But definitely back then, like that was not common, right. So yeah, so you just pack up and go west, and you had to BC, did you even have jobs lined up? Or are you just like, I'm gonna buy a plane ticket. And once I get out there, I will figure it out. And, you know, I'll survive because that's what I got to do.

Oh, no, no, you hit the nail right on the head, like a I remember, I bought a mountain bike because I heard it's great for that. That would have been my transportation. I had my one piece of luggage and said, I'm going out. And I still remember it's my memories pretty intact, considering that that traumatic brain injury. I remember getting off that plane. I remember it vividly. What do I do? I got off in Vancouver and like, how do I get to Victoria? Like, I was totally lost. Thank goodness, this wonderful stranger said, Oh, come with me. And I caught the ferry and ended up in Tsawwassen and Victoria. And I'm just like, okay, cool. But yeah, I was just like, What am I doing? And so, when I did get out there, I did odd jobs and to pay the bills once I moved out from my stepsister. So I could, you know, I have a place of my own. And a friend of mine from Windsor, moved out as well. She was maybe going through the same things as me and we live together. And that's how we survived when I first got out there. So

but survive is really Yes, that's all it was. Yeah, five survival. Like you mentioned, the book you had, you had a futon mattress, and you had a milk carton turned on its side, that was your end table. And like that was all you really had. Yeah. And so from, from a career perspective, how were you considering how you were going to? How were you? I mean, you mentioned these odd jobs, right? So you're just making money, but like, these don't sound like things that you really thought you'd be doing long term, they were just what you were going to do to make money while you did figure out the long term plan. Did you have any ideas about how you to put that degree to use in order to get into something in the business world, or were you just totally lost?

I, I would say was lost. Like, I ended up getting a job managing or working in retail, you know, November, and I was gonna just start over again. And I think just the mental state I was in, I just didn't like where my life was going, like, I did have suicidal ideation, I'm like, I moved out west, thinking I could do something different or make a change, and I'm doing the same thing. So it just led to more aggravation. And I remember, one of my best friends came to visit me. And after our visit, after a week, he said to my Mum, what's wrong with Greg? Like, he's just in such a state, like a frustration. And so I'm just gonna start that job. And that's, you know, the couple days before I took my last shift, and you mentioned those odd jobs. I was a cleaner at a five star hotel in Victoria. And I worked the graveyard shift. I remember walking home and, you know, it's gonna start that new job in two days. I'm like, okay, is this my life like, and spoiler alert, this is in my book, I came to the bridge where I lived. It was on the street where I lived, and I thought, You know what, maybe this is, like, good ended, but I didn't because I'm a mama's boy. I'm self proclaimed. I don't think that It's helped my dating life much. But anyway, that's another podcast. But yeah, I didn't because of that. And that's the last thing I remembered for 15 days, like I was jumped from behind and, you know, many perpetrators, you know, just focused on my head and beat me up. So that's how I ended up with my brain injury.

Yeah. So 15 days, you end up in a coma. Yeah. And I think you told me before we, as we were setting up the day to record this that today, the day we're recording, this is the anniversary of when you woke up from exactly

like, it's funny how the stars align, like, you know, I, I told you two before we started, I am born again. But I keep that to myself. But it's so interesting, Jonathan, like that. I was confirmed in the Lutheran Church in Sault Ste. Marie when I was 13. I thought, Okay, I'm done with that relationship. I'm getting nothing out of it. That's the end of it. Now, remember, that night before going in for that last shift, I, for some reason, looked up to dark ceiling up, you know, getting up from my futon mattress and saying, is this it? You know, explicit language, you have it, like, this is what I'm going to do. This is my life. I'm going to just end up, you know, measuring men's pants like, I'm just this is it. And then sure enough, this happened to me. And from there as we discuss. I got my direction, but I got it in a horrific way.

Yeah. So in the measuring men's pants comment is, of course in reference to you were about to start a job. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. That's what I mean. Like, sorry. Very good. That's good. commentating Jonathan, but yeah, exactly. Like, you know, he's just gonna be like, just want

to differentiate what was your career versus what hobbies you might do? Exactly.

Yeah, that wasn't my hobby. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But yeah, that's, you know, I was gonna work in that department in retail. So yeah, yeah.

All right. So you get attacked assaulted? Yeah, you end up in a coma for 15 days. You wake up in the hospital. And the next part of your life was very complicated and very difficult. So like, we have to ignore that any talk of even career. Yeah. Because your life was off the rails because these people decide or we don't even you don't even know, right, yeah, random, random act of violence. And so you end up you wake up from this coma. And as you talk about, you are because of this injury, you like, nothing makes sense. You you can't do anything for yourself. You have a hard time comprehending what had happened, your mobility was compromised. Tell me about that. What was that like?

Well, it's I still can't believe it to this day like and clinical terms. I've had what you had a spontaneous recovery. Like I my mom still calls me a miracle today. Like I had to relearn everything like ya know, the walk, I didn't know how to write. I was stripped of my emotions, and it's commonplace with brain injury. We have a flat effect. Like I I look like a zombie. Like I didn't know how to emote like it was very frustrating. What was horrible with that, Jonathan, I was frustrated, but they look in the mirror and I just have a blank face. What is going on? And before this happened to me, I was so ignorant a brain injury, and I'm sure, maybe back in the day when you were younger, you were to like I would hear Oh, someone got in a car accident. Someone got assaulted. Oh, they didn't break anything. They're fine. I would ignore the fact that brain injury is the worst outcome, like the brain controlled everything. Yeah. I don't know why I had that disconnection. Like, again, like, like it's interesting. It's weird. Like I I wasn't introduced to it. I was introduced to it the hard way. But it's just like, why can I move my legs? They weren't broken but my brain didn't send messages to get up and walk and yeah, in why can I write why can I hold the pen? Why did I have left neglect? Like why couldn't they see things on the left? Like it was just so bizarre. Like I I just couldn't fathom it. Like I'm like, what's going on? Like it was? Yeah, I'm still think back. And it's, it blows my mind. Like I I think you read in the book. I must have said it's weird. 10,000 times. For the first week. My recovery. I think my mom was sick of that. But I'm just like, What is going on? Like this? Yeah. And I still don't know what happened. And, and I count that as a blessing. Because, you know, someone will have told me Greg, before this happened to me. You got a great job in business in Toronto. I'm a small town guy. I'd be like, No, I'm not going to Toronto. It's scary because I was fearful. But now because of my faith. I've been doing this for 20 years. I walked here, like I'm just, you know, I'm strong in my faith and I don't worry about those things. anymore. So yeah.

And to it's like having having read everything you explained like, it's remarkable to. I mean, the book being called my invisible disability makes a lot of sense as an outsider, because we got introduced by some people will thank later on in this episode. And I wondered, like, this might sound weird, but I was like, What will Greg be like with having this injury and having read the book? And I was like, what has his recovery? Where has he sort of ended up is he and like, as an outsider, I would never have ever known you had this injury and you forgot how to you had to relearn how to use the bathroom, how to walk, you had to have people doing these things for you for a couple months. Yeah. While you were in this recovery. I was also blown away by when I realized what the timeline if things weren't that, like, I think I thought your recovery would take like, and it did take a long time. Sure. Right. But, but like you were mobile within a couple months, but like the way you were right about it, it was so difficult in that in that time to have to do the therapy and, and rely on other people to do everything for you. Right. Like your, your mother was huge. Yeah.

You bring her up, I might get incontinent, emotional. It is, you know, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be having this podcast with you today. And, and that's something I'm sure we'll press upon as we talk more. Mm hmm. I was so fortunate and blessed to have an advocate in my mother and Allison that you read in the book like it, my girlfriend at the time, like, like they spoke for me when I couldn't speak and yeah. And that resulted in amazing care and rehab. So I will look to them for that, because I see some people who don't have that. And it's quite sad, like I welling up right now. And it's just something that it's home with me like I want. And I told you earlier, like my biggest deficits from it. And that's what's tricky. And what I love about my books named my invisible disability, I look normal, but you don't see fatigue, you don't see rigidity, which I have, like, you were taking out the trash. I was 20 minutes early. I'm so structured and rigid. Like, that's just how I'm wired now, and it can be tiring, and that leads to fatigue. And, and I think I also told you earlier, like I rehabbed it a different time. And I think it was just a generation thing. I don't know how to explain it. And, you know, I know I'm getting ahead of things here. Jonathan, I mentioned this when my second book comes out. I don't know what's changed, like, why I want people to have the care that I had. Yeah. And sometimes they get frustrated with my career and upset that okay. Why can't they have what I have not realizing it's a different time?

Mm hmm. Yeah. The number the sheer number of people that helped you through that recovery like the the physio, occupational therapists. This is not my area of expertise, but like, the not how many different staff at this hospital at first, you were at the hospital for about a month right up the coma for 15 days and then two more weeks at the hospital. Then you went to the rehabilitation facility. How many different staff were you interacting with regularly that were helping you with your recovery?

Well, you just mentioned acute care don't remember much. Yeah, yeah. In rehab, though. Like at the occupational therapist, physiotherapist, I had speech language pathologist. I didn't need a behavioral therapist, I probably would have needed one in acute care because I couldn't control my behaviors. A social worker, and I mentioned him in my book, and I'll give a shout out I don't mind saying his name John tutor. He was amazing, like social worker at the gorge, he really introduced me to writing as a way to get out my anger. He was amazing. You know, nursing, I probably dealt with about 10 Different nurses. I'm in OTA by background Occupational Therapy Assistant by background, I dealt with them. I dealt with a physiotherapy assistant. So I had so many people who cared for me, they were all amazing. Like a acute care was a bit dicey as you read in the book, but the rehab hospital like they were phenomenal. Like it was amazing. And I guess that's our segue into that was my next career. I fell in love with what they did. Yeah. You know what, this is maybe what I want to do. Yeah, it really fascinated me even early on. I'm like, this is kind of cool. Like, what they're doing for me, even though in the state I was in I really couldn't figure it out as a career. But it's like, you know what, this is interesting. Yeah.

Um, it's of course, yeah. Like your memory was something you talked about. And it's when I was reading it the whole time, I was thinking like that he just talked to all his family members. And that's how all these stories come up. But you think he said in the epilogue you journaled because that was part of the recovery process. And so you have these journals that that helped you, I guess, put the pieces together the whole story of what happened during this time. And somewhere in the book, it was somewhere in chapter nine. You mentioned, realizing how special all these nurses and therapists and social workers were. And when you realize that, was it that immediate? I mean, you just kind of said something that makes me want to dig deeper, like, when was it that you started to think these people have been so impactful on my life that I want to do or should do or can do something like this for other people? When was that?

I would say it was from a fellow patient, older gentleman, his name was Bob. And you know, he was my angel. He was the first person I opened up to, like I mentioned that flat effect. I didn't want to really talk and when that wasn't my fault, that was just from my brain injury. But I opened up to him. And when I got discharged from the inpatient part of my rehab, and went back as an outpatient, I would go and visit him and he'd be in the cafeteria, and how the Gorge Road hospital was set up was inpatient, you they had a floor for inpatient rehab, and it was everyone like Toronto rehabs an amazing facility that gave separate floors for each ailment from geriatric to cardiovascular, to stroke, MSK to brain injury, where I work, and they had everything in one floor at the gorge that was just it was a small hospital. And you would also go there for outpatient therapy. So when I was discharged, go to outpatient, and they also had a long term care, or assisted living facility in the basement. And that's where I went to outpatient therapy. And so we mentioned the book, I became enamored, you know, near the end of my stay. But when I go and visit Bob, he set an example for me, I'd go and visit him in the cafeteria after my physiotherapy or occupational therapy, and he'd get me to help other people, maybe if they're having troubles with their meal, if they're having troubles with their coffee. And I started to develop confidence in that I'm like, wow, this is kind of cool. Like, this is I see what those people are doing for me. I want to do a to like, I get joy out of it. Like it felt really good. And, and I,

and this is all when you're doing your rehab

Yeah, when I do my rehab, and that led to me volunteering. Yeah, I got hooked up with Vancouver Island head injury support group. I did that fairly early on, like three months after my injury. And that opened doors and in my social worker introduced me with that advocate from that society in from it, it led to volunteering with other persons with a brain injury. And it looking back, I volunteered with this one person with a brain injury and I did a swim class with Vincent. Yeah, and, and what? It's interesting how you just kind of cued me how he didn't know what you would get when I came in. Well, I was like that, like, I thought I was going to see a guy who's like me. We go first swim, have a couple laughs and have a coffee. No beer, not allowed for a year to drink after brain injury thought I'd throw that in there. And he wasn't he was quite physically impaired. Yeah, from his injury. And looking back, I don't think my physios outpatient and inpatient would have been thrilled with me doing that, like I was just learning how to walk again. I'm in the slippery pool deck swimming with this guy. And pretty much I needed to dress him shower and get in the pool with him. But he was amazing. He taught me stuff too. He gave me perspective, like this guy lived on his own and like, how good for him. Like, you know, I was, I was fascinated by oh my goodness, how is he doing it? But he did like that was true. Survival. And he wanted to be independent. Right? So yeah, early on, they started volunteering. That's how I started to, you know, fall in love with it. And, and I did other volunteer jobs. I was a bingo caller at a retirement home. And it was quite interesting. Like, I enjoyed it. And like, you know what, this is kind of cool. Yeah. I like doing

and you told me in your prep notes for this, this. So that it was really like, two years of rest and recovery after that. Yeah. To to, I guess, like tell me what what rest and recovery really means. Because in my head when I hear two years rest and recovery, I'm thinking like, you really can't You can't work. So, you know, sure. We're here to talk about careers, but you couldn't you have to prepare your body and your mind to to you have to rest and reset it and get it back to a point where you can spend hours a day like many jobs would have you doing one task. And so volunteering, obviously a big part of what you did during that time then to help with that recovery, I guess.

Yeah, exactly. And I recommend that to patients I work with, like, who do have a full time job and have their entry. Like, I didn't have one when I was recovering, but I tell them, you know, what's a great way to grade yourself? Volunteer, you're doing great work for people. You see if you can be on time, if you can do things if you can follow a schedule, and it's a real way to test yourself because the rehab hospital was a controlled environment for me. In the real world, I didn't know how he could handle it. Right. And, and you mentioned the two years rest and recovery, I was very fortunate to have a very supportive family who allowed me to rest some people don't have that wonderful gift, like I had the ability to do that. But during that time, I did more research on brain injury. And I also did more volunteering. I said, You know what? I'm going to look into going to school for this. Okay, so but yeah, kind of, but I also knew it would be a test for me like I insight is a huge issue with persons with a brain injury. Some people don't realize their issues, but I kind of was in tune to it right away, like my fatigue and how am I going to handle it? So I had to really be cognizant of Okay. Prepare yourself, Greg, something might come up you didn't expect when I went back to school, so yeah,

yeah. So then, you were doing it's not like it was this moment all at once, where you're like, I'm gonna go back to school and go become an occupational therapist or occupational OTA, I think you said, Yeah, yep. Yeah, yeah. So it was this buildup over time of the research. And as your recovery progressed, you ended up going to school back in Sault Ste. Marie. So how did that happen? Because you're across the country. You've got your mom out there who was so pivotal in your recovery, as you said, why Sault Ste. Marie, why'd you end up back there for school? From a purely like, career standpoint? Again? Yeah, it was it that that program in particular was incredibly solid and well respected program, or was it the call of back home or something else?

I think everything that comfort level, and just to kind of sum up stuff with like, I've been all over the place early on in my life. My mum and Brian, my stepfather, who was very instrumental in my recovery as well. Sadly, his sister was dying of cancer in Kitchener Waterloo. So they moved back with me. So we all came back to Ontario. And I actually lived and did the rest and recovery in Waterloo, like a farm house, it was amazing. I was able to really rest and do things there and do volunteering there. But the Sault also was comfort level. I had friends up there, my father and my stepmother, Kathy, like, I'll just plug this out there. It was difficult for me early on being from a broken home, but I was blessed with an amazing step mom and stepfather. And, you know, we're the Brady Bunch, I think I have what's the math for I think I have about 12 extended siblings. So, you know, they were all amazing. And they were instrumental praying for me in my recovery, too. I'm not gonna give not to that helped out in my recovery either. But yeah, that comfort level and Sault College had a, they have a great nursing program, but they also had an amazing occupational therapy assistant physiotherapy assistant program. And I wanted to go there, I, I didn't want to become a physiotherapist, an occupational therapist, because I didn't have an undergrad, which is three to four years. And then you need a master's. Let's another two years. I'm like, by the time I'm done my schooling, I'll be doing rehab on myself. So I just said, Let's do a two year program and see what happens. That's what I did. I went back for the assistance program up in Sault College.

Okay, from a practical standpoint, with these, the fatigue and things like that, that you've talked about, were you able to, did you have to sort of modify the program and take it part time? Well,

I? That's a great question, Jonathan. I went full bore and looking back like with fatigue, I have to prioritize. So usually I could have a part time job go out and have fun, you know, go to the gym, but I could only focus on school so I gained about 30 pounds so I just had to focus on that. And so I did go to special needs and they have a big departments at Sault college but it was like them do the two year program in three years. I said that's not really benefiting me. So I just said you know what, go for it. And you know, it was a difficult two years but I got through it and I'm proud. I did graduate with honors, but I think my experience the essays and exams, I just use my own experiences like It was like, Okay, I got an education the hard way, but it was a great education. So that's what Sault college was really good to me. And I have great friends still up there.

Fantastic. Yeah. So then, when you graduate Sault college, you're you're now at another moment where you're, and I say another moment, because I remember on page one, you say, when you were graduating high school, you were sitting there, waiting for your name to be announced, and you're like, What am I doing? I feel like this time you didn't feel like that at all.

No, you're right.

You felt totally different. You knew exactly what you were doing. You had a very clear path. And then practically, what's How do you look for a job? Do you? Are you looking in SSault Ste. Marie are you looking in Kitchener Waterloo? Are you willing to move around? Because I guess here's an interesting question. Like, are you fully independent by this point in time? How long did that take for you to get to the point where you didn't need the support of anyone else?

I would say after I graduated from college, but I really didn't test the job market and how I would work in a full time job. So I did move back to Kitchener Waterloo with my mom and my stepdad, Brian. And I did end up getting a job in Hamilton, Hamilton Health Sciences, a rehab therapist dealing with behaviors brought on by brain injury. And it just it's interesting how everything worked out, it was part time, which was really good, because I think, in a way that was beneficial, because it was like, self grading, like I didn't have to go back full time. Yeah. And it really showed me like, they were amazing. And I got to give them a shout out even though it was 20 years ago. Like, you know, my first career path was, you know, when human resource, I have that certificate, I had a three year gap in my resume, like with that rest and recovery, my injury. And I just said, You know what, I gotta be honest, I disclosed with him that I did have a brain traumatic brain injury, and they gave me a chance. And that was amazing. I can. And I learned so much in that nine months of part time work. They're like amazing staff and the things they did with those patients was phenomenal. Like, I was proud to be part of that team. But I just want to give that shout out because they gave me a chance. And it prepared me for my full time opportunity to Toronto Rehab. And that's just, you know, I just threw out resumes like everyone else and tried to get out there to get interviews. And that's what happened. It just lined up well for me

how long between when you started the full time. And when you in Hamilton. And then when you started looking

It was pretty quick, like trying to rehab had an occupational therapy assistant position for summer contract. And I said, You know what, I'll keep the Hamilton job part time. And I'll give this a try. So I tried it. I'm like, this is kind of cool. I could see this as a career. And when my contract came up, this is again, 20 years ago, my manager was amazing. I said, What am I gonna do like my contracts up? And she said, Well, are you interested in full time? Like, okay, cool. Oh, you got to post it and go through many interviews. But I'm like, Okay, I'll do it. And that resulted in full time job. Sadly had to give up the Hamilton job, but you know, and, and, again, props to Toronto Rehab, they saw that three year gap, and I explained to him, they took a chance on me as well. So it's like, yeah, you know, they, they didn't judge me, like, I thought that was very cool. They didn't discriminate. They said, Okay, this guy is something special, let's give him a chance,

you know, how much maybe society has changed that. And I'm not in your shoes at all. So maybe it's not even fair for me to comment on this. But in my head, I would look at that and say, like, this guy has the actual experience of, of, he's been through what some of these other people have been through. So I would actually view it as as a benefit to, to helping you or to, to you being the best candidate for that job. But that's just interesting to see how different people would view that right?

Yeah, well, how you perceive it. Yeah, you probably do have, like, I, I do have other, you know, deficits, if you want to call them like, I don't have a filter. Like they say what's on my mind. To me, that's what makes me a great clinician. I show my feelings which can get me in trouble as well. And, you know, there's things that have popped up that I've learned about myself for my brain injury, like you know, we have great amazing meetings and rounds meetings talking about patients. If there's something that didn't agree with, I can hide it. It's like, why is Greg muttering stuff? That's just, you know, and, and that's something I got to work on, right? Like, I don't want to come across as someone Okay, he's disgruntled or some, but that's just how my brains wired right now. Yeah, you know, it's something that I need to work on, right. Like, I think, in all our careers Whatever industry, giving feedback and getting feedback is not fun. So that's, that's a work in progress. I kind of got offline there on a tangent there. But that is something I need to work on. And I think, you know, I'll be even a better clinician if I did that.

So were you moving around location wise, when you finally got the job in Toronto? Did you move there?

Yeah, well, you're gonna probably think you there is something wrong with you. I, I commuted from Waterloo for the first during the summer contract. I'm like, Okay, I gotta do it. So great. Coming in early hour and a half, three hours on the way back, but yeah, but after that, I moved to Toronto, and I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna get a place and get settled and give it a go. And, you know, it's been amazing. Yeah. I love my job. And it's led to other like, I would say, promotions and other avenues, which I really am grateful for.

Yeah. So I know that from then. That's what 2005 or so or

Yeah. 2001. year right to 2005. I was an assistant. Yeah.

Okay. So yeah, from from, I guess, 2005. Then you're in Toronto. You're an OTA and or end a PTA as well

Yeah. Yeah. More OTA, Yeah. Okay.

So you're doing that in Toronto. And with so many people, I talk to you, there's always kind of this like major life event or where they change their career. But for you that change happens so long ago, that I imagine there's been a lot that's happened while you've still been in this career path. Yes, you're still working in, in occupational therapy and physio helping people with rehab, things like that. But I don't imagine it's just been like a straight shot. You've had the same job for 15 or 20 years now. And obviously, you haven't. So tell me about some of the pivots or challenges you've sort of experienced over the course of that time working now in Toronto?

Awesome question, Jonathan. And, yeah, like in 05, I became a rehab therapist, like the job in Hamilton, but at Toronto Rehab, I'm grateful. They gave me that position. And after a couple years, it really started to wear on me of I continually worked because Torontos, a transitional hospital. So I've probably seen 10s of 1000s of patients, like that's just maybe that's too much. But that's just, you know, 4-8 weeks stay next patient like, you know, and in brain injury, the numbers are crazy. Like, it's, it's shocking. If you go into the Ontario Brain Injury Association page, you see the numbers, you're like, it's that prevalent. So after about six years of working in rehab, it really wore at me, Why didn't these people get what I got? Like, why did I recover? The way I did, and, you know, I'd meet someone, that or a patient that was in a coma for two days and couldn't walk and didn't, you know, couldn't see like, I was just like, Why was I so fortunate and really wore at me, and I got to give Toronto Rehab credit, again, they gave me a year leave of absence to kind of figure out, okay, what am I going to do with these issues, and in from that, not that it helped, but I ended up working in long term care in Sault Ste. Marie again, I went and, you know, lived up there, I paid a rental, but I got to see my dad some more. And it opened my eyes to long term care as well, but it really made me deal with Okay, Greg, how can you deal with this issue of that guilt that I had, and I just summed it up as I did a lot of praying and, and, you know, going to church, and I was just kind of like, okay, you're there to help people. And they may have not have the outcomes as you but at least you can help them. And that's how I dealt with that issue. And so, since then, from 2008 Till now, I've done other things, like you mentioned my book. That was amazing. And I owe a lot to my publisher, Donna sinabi. They're working on a second book of mine. Like they brought my story to life. And I remember my editor, he's a funny guy in very smart. He said, Greg, you're not JK Rowling. Like, I'm all excited all I can quit my job, I'm gonna be a millionaire. He just said, that book, open doors, and it's your legacy that has like it led to speaking engagements in you know, I love speaking as you're finding out, and, you know, I've done keynote speeches, I've done conferences, I've done all these amazing things. And that book is my tool, my key to do such things, and I've probably given away more books than I sell, because to me, it gives my fellow persons with a brain injury, hope and that's the whole point. And so, my editor was dead on and that you know what, Greg coolit you're still going to be working full time, but it'll give you other opportunities. So that's what that book is. For me, and that was in 2006, it came out. And you know, I probably did a poor job of promoting Jonathan, but you know, it, it's led to some amazing things and, and, you know, back to work. I've been also working in research since 2010. Like in research fascinates me, like I do that one day a week. And I wish we had the technology we have nowadays when I was there, like there wasn't, but now through tele rehab, people can still get rehab when they leave the hospital setting. And I find that amazing, like I people isolate themselves, and this is a way for them to keep on going. So I'm thrilled that I'm involved in that, so Mm hmm. So as you can see, I've done a lot of things at Toronto Rehab, and they've given me that opportunity. So I'm grateful for that.

Yeah, yeah. So then right now, what is the sort of I guess title of what you do on the the OTA side of things is it does that like as, what's the level of progression there as a as a career?

Well, as well, to me as a rehab therapist, we hire Yeah, I, I carry out the program from occupational therapy, physiotherapy, Speech, Language Pathology, if there's behaviors I get involved, like, it's, to me a very specialized position. I really like doing that. And, and I meant for the front, Jonathan, like, I don't, I think this is where my career at this moment, and you never know what's gonna happen. Right? And, and I really don't want to move ahead, like I, I love the front, I love I get that, you know, and in to me, and this is where I told him strong my faith, it's meant to be like, all I've worked with is brain injury. And that means a lot to me, because I know, I'm helping them and I want to give them hope. And I want them to get what I had. And it's just it's interesting that how it's lined up, like, as you can see, hopefully, when you piece this podcast together, you see how it's that progression is like this. This is kind of meant to be like this. Yeah, guy. He's meant to do this as a career. But I just I, I want to stay in the front. I love being with people, like with a brain injury. So

yeah. So I suppose then what we need to talk about is the future for you, and you want to stay on the front. But you've talked about the second book. And I know you were thinking about it a long time ago, because the first book came out in 2006. And in the epilogue, or late in the book, you actually mentioned that you're working on a second one already. So this book is 15 years in the making, or something like that. Yeah, exactly. So what's this book going to be about?

Well, basically, it's a continuation of my invisible disability like me, you know, it factors more in that outpatient aspect of me following and getting that direction. Like I talk more about that. And then sadly, there's two parts with the second part is my father died of lung cancer, and he struggled for almost a year. And I was on the other side of what my family went through. So it was about that caregiving aspect of it. And I also talk about changes in health care, like it has changed from what I got rehab, and I talk about that, like, you know, with my work environment, and, you know, some of the stuff I don't like, right, and in my second book, I talk about it, my father always said, say, the good with the bad. And, you know, I do that, like, there's amazing work done by majority, but there's some stuff I don't like and, and that's something I just want to bring a light to, because hopefully we can prevent that from becoming embedded in that work environment. So that's just something I hope my book can be used as a tool for that like, and, and that's something I'm proud of my first book, it's actually used as a text at my alma mater, Sault College, which I find interesting. It just came to my mind now and that would be great if this book could be used that way too. And just people think, Okay, should I be acting this way? Or should I be treating people like this? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's a bit scary, but I'm excited about it, too. Because I, I want people to learn, like from my experiences, both as a patient and as a caregiver, and as a clinician,

yeah, no release date yet. I can't tell people to go and buy it. No, no,

no, no, not yet. It's early on negotiating. But yeah, I'm looking forward to it. And, you know, it's, I'm excited about it. And maybe that could lead to a different career, but I just want to really affect people getting the rehab and recover they need from brain injury, and that's why I'm excited, not only as an inpatient clinician, but with research like I I'm really excited about that, like the tele rehab center that I work one day a week. It's amazing what they do, like I talked to participants were involved and it's just it's Amazing like it's really especially now with the pandemic. It's nice for them to connect with people virtually, and talk and learn about therapy like cognitive behavior therapy, or mindfulness meditation and things like that. And goal management training, like, this is stuff I wish I had. So I'm glad I'm involved that we can give it to other people and can hopefully benefit them, which I think it is like I interviewed these people on Tuesday, and they love the groups like it's really amazing. So shout out to Dr. Green, like amazing, like, oh, yeah, yeah,

yeah. And I know they're there. We've talked about numerous people over the course of this interview, but I know there are, there are so many people that have sort of helped you get to where you are. So who haven't we been able to talk about that? You want to give a shout out?

Oh, well, well, thanks. And you and I talked about like the six degrees of separation. I worked with her a couple years ago, when she moved out was Colleen Coolman, she's an OT, occupational therapist. She said, Greg, I know this podcast, or, you know, my friend knows a guy and I'm like, Okay, I'll, I'm interested. And that led to, I think, your friend, Rachel Peters, who then we connected to what led to this. So I'm very grateful for that. And, you know, I, this where I make it emotional, like, I give thanks to that, because, uh, you know, I hope people learn something about brain injury, like from this podcast, and, and I just one people with a brain injury to know not to give up hope, like, you know, I've went from not writing and walking to running a marathon and having a second book. And, you know, I'm very fortunate, like, what I tell my patients is, you can't find a textbook with results and in timelines for brain injury, because there isn't one every single one is different. Yeah, in that it's a positive and a negative, because it's like, okay, why can't I get back? Like, we just don't know. Right? So, you know, on that front, I want to thank my mom and my family, they've been so amazing to me and given me the support and in advocating for me. I also mentioned earlier thanking, my publisher, Donna sinabi, and my editor. He's an amazing guy, he's helping me with my second book. And I guess the shoutouts, I want to give a shout out to, you know, the brain program 9 10 and 11. Keep up your great work. And, you know, the research lab, I work with the brain injury discovery and recovery team, and specifically Dr. Robin green, and Brenda Calella. They're really amazing people and really giving to people like me, and you know, I, I just want to end, Jonathan, I think we're coming to an end, I, I think you notice I keep on saying persons not survivor. And that's just something I've gotten in my vocabulary over the past eight years. I was a survivor in acute care. I was a patient in rehab, but I'm a person again. And sadly, not sadly. But I do have deficits from my brain injury. I'm a person with a brain injury, but I'm person again. And I say that for everyone that's a person with Parkinson's, that's a person with quadriplegia, where people again, it's just we're dealing with issues that were not our fault.

Well, those are powerful words to end off with. So I'm not gonna keep us going any longer than I need to be. So Greg, thank you so much for sharing not only your career path with us, but also some knowledge about brain injuries that I imagine most people don't have. Because before I got connected with you and read your book, this was all a foreign concept to me, if you haven't experienced or if you don't have a loved one or a relative, hopefully your loved ones are your relatives. But if you don't have someone close to you who's gone through this, it's probably not something a lot of people know about. But thanks to you, hopefully they know a little bit more.

Yeah. And again, thank you, Jonathan. I'll just say one more thing. Just remember my fellow persons the brain injury, don't think yourself as a burden. Let your loved ones love you. And interdependence leads to independence, I relied on my family. And now I'm doing quite well. So let them help you. And you will do the same in return later on in their life. So just accept the help.

All right. So that is Greg's story. And it is obviously pretty intense and different from a lot of other people I've spoken to where we're just primarily focused on their career. With Greg, you can't really separate the incident that occurred 25 years ago, from the career he has, and now they are 100% connected. And it's that connection that I want to talk about when it comes to things that we can learn from Greg's career path 25 years ago Greg was beaten to within an inch of his life. And after this incredibly difficult event, you might think Greg would want to distance himself from what happened to him as part of his recovery. And I definitely wouldn't blame him if he never wanted to talk about it again. But instead, Greg has embraced what happened to him, he has embraced that experience. He recognizes that he can't change what happened to him, but he can help other people who are going through some of the same recovery that he had to go through. So Greg headed off to Sault college. And as he told us, he used his personal experience as part of his education process in his essays and assignments. And now for 20 years, Greg has been doing this on the ground helping people day to day with their recovery. Now, I know that traumatic events affect people in different ways, and not everyone is going to want to take the path that Greg did. And I totally understand that I am not sitting here telling you that you should turn your negative experiences into positive ones. But what I do feel confident in saying is that Greg is proof that it is not impossible to do so. Given that if you do have an interest in turning a negative experience into a positive for the future, it's probably worth putting in the work to see if you can. I also think there is some lighter learning that we can take from Greg, and it is probably more applicable to more people who are listening to this. So let's talk about that. I asked Greg, what was the moment when he realized that he was interested in pursuing occupational therapy as a career after his injury. That was when Greg mentioned Bob, who he talks about a lot more in his book. And it was Bob, who got Greg to start helping other patients in their own recovery while Greg was coming back in for his outpatient rehab. Greg had such a positive experience doing that, that he got in touch with other organizations and continued to volunteer his time, and did that for years while he recovered. I think if anything that just goes to show us the power of volunteering, if there's some kind of job that you think you want, but you just aren't fully committed to it, try and find a volunteer opportunity to go and experience that job firsthand. There is no better way to find out if a career is or is not for you than actually getting your hands dirty and trying it. As I said, that is perhaps the more practical of the two lessons for today. But I hope that one of them did resonate with you. If you learned something else from Greg's story, I would love to hear about what it was. So please reach out to me through the contact page at career crossroads podcast.com. And let me know that music means we have come to the end of this episode of career crossroads. Do you want to find out more about Greg's road to recovery pick up his book my invisible disability, which I will link to in the show notes of your podcasting app of choice or on the episode page at career crossroads podcast.com. That is also where you can find links to rate and review this podcast or to monetarily support the show. Your contributions help keep the lights on and I of course very much appreciate. If you know someone who'd be interested in Greg's career path, please share this episode with them. And if you want to hear more interviews like this, follow or subscribe to the podcast on whatever app you're listening to this on right now.